Dorie Clark: Building Your Personal Brand (Interview)
CEO Greg Smith interviews marketing strategist and author Dorie Clark on how to build your personal image.
About Dorie Clark:
Dorie Clark works as a market expert and professional speaker who is a professor in Duke's Fuqua School of Business. She is the co-author of Reinventing Yourself and Standing Out. Download her absolutely free 42-page Self-Assessment workbook called Stand Out..
To get in touch with Dorie to get in touch with Dorie, go to: www.dorieclark.com
For the full interview, click on the video below:
Get the complete transcript below:
Greg: Dorie, it's really good for me to meet you. I'm certain that you're an expert in marketing. One thing I've been interested in is the books have been published - "Stand Out," called the most popular leadership book according to Inc. magazine, and "Reinventing You," an ebook on personal branding. I'm a fan of all the branding side, especially personal branding. I know that our audience is very keen on that. I'm very excited to meet you here today. Another aspect that I'm sure the people in our audience are keen on is the fact that you're a teacher and have done a lot of teaching by being an adjunct instructor in Duke University in the school of business. You've also taught at Duke University, even guest lecturing at institutions like Harvard the business school. So it's very a wonderful to have you here and it's a joy to be talking to you.>
Dorie:Dorie: Hey, thank for all your help, Greg. I'm really glad to have the chance.
Greg: Great, excellent. That's why I have so many different things ask you that I think the people who read this blog will be interested by. One aspect that I find fascinating about your kind of job is that you have done it a lot of instances. Do you want to talk a bit to some of things you've accomplished previously? It's like, people are looking at you and think you're in this wonderful prosperous position where you're an authority in your field and have built this amazing personal brand. What are some of the different reinventions you took in your journey to reach that point?More
"p>Dorie thank you! There have been a lot. Indeed, that was the basis and basis for my debut novel, "Reinventing You". But basically, I studied philosophy during my undergrad years and then went to graduate school for theology. After I got my masters degree, I thought that I could go on to get the doctorate in literature however, I was actually turned down by all of the doctoral programs that I tried to apply to, so it wasn't going to take place. So my initial re-invention was just having to come up with a totally different strategy. Thus, I decided to become a newspaper reporter that was actually a good plan. I felt fairly confident in this, but I picked the most difficult time in history to be a newspaper reporter. The industry was crashing, due to Craigslist and the internet, right when I joined, and so a year later I was laid off. So then I transitioned from covering politics to being involved in political campaigns. I was spokespersons for two very prominent campaigns, one for a governor's race in the US and the second one was of the Presidential campaign. Both of them lost, so I was able to make one other big change in my role as an executive director. It was while managing this non-profit for a couple of years that I realized that running a non-profit is similar to running a small business and I thought to myself, "aha! I should be doing this on my own, I could become an entrepreneurial. It was my major reinvention.>
"p>Greg There were lots of tests throughout the process and learning from each one of these steps too. Then you put out a bunch of book ideas before you actually took off. How long was that persisting phase that involved trial-and-error until you hit it off?
Dorie I'm sure it will take a while. I was having a call with a client this morning and she was truly depressed because she's been trying to do this kind of brand building stuff for the past few months, and felt that it wasn't getting anywhere. The truth is that in the next few months, it's not going to get anyplace. You have to do it for some time before you see results but the good thing is that once you start seeing results a lot of individuals have already quit as they're discouraged so they're not making the effort. So for me I was in 2009 when I finally decided that I wanted to publish an ebook and wanted to see it happen. Then I wrote three book proposals and trying to put them out and about, trying to find editors interested. No one was interested since I didn't have the recognition so I needed to essentially go back to starting from scratch and I tried for a full year fairly unsuccessfully to even just make it through and to be able to write for major magazines. After that, it took me probably around two or three years of very regular writing before I started receiving inquiries regarding consulting, speaking or coaching because of my articles, the brand I've built and the like. What did happen quicker which I was really pleased with was that in the year 2011, when, less than two years after that I realized that I needed to start writing blogs to establish my brand. 2011 was when I signed the contract for my first book. This process took me some time and it took several years to have the book release. What I've learned is that, if you do things in the correct way, there will be progress eventually, you will get there and it's always longer than you want to it to.>
Greg George: I've seen this through the experiences that I've been through. If you were able to get that book deal, I'm sure it was a part of the article you published for Harvard Business Review. One thing I'm always interested in is when you're on the market and you're just getting established with a brand and you're writing. Are you in the middle of that debate, but is it appropriate to write on your own platform or on your blog, writing on others' blogs, or publishing content to those sites? It's a matter of perspective if you get time for a particular amount of that because you're starting this in the background, where are you focusing your effort?•
Then there is theDorie It all is dependent on the goal you have in mind. My goal was clearly, from the beginning is to release the book. I was aware that anything I could do to get external recognition as well as social evidence will be valuable for me when it came to getting publishers to believe that I had an audience and was respected enough person to be able to publish an actual book. My goal right at the start was to attempt to write for the larger publications at first. So I focused on that. If you have another goal in mind, such as if you'd like to start a blog and monetize your blog, it's a good idea, like a Seth Godin or Chris Brogan, to focus on creating blog posts on your site. A hybrid model that actually works quite well is one that James Clear has done in which he publishes his content through his blog first, and later, he distributes it to different publications. There aren't many publications that will accept this second run of content. Many publications require that it is original but he's found sites that are willing to take it and after that he links back and invites readers to sign-up to my newsletter. And so he's been able to build up a pretty good number of followers in this way.
Greg The answer is yes, a lot of the strategies are based on what your goals are. So a great way to look at it. You should start by defining your objectives and then where you're headed in the direction of it. I'm aware that in "Stand Out the Way', your latest book, you've included a number of strategies for people in terms of coming up with a breakthrough idea and I know that, together with instructors and coaches and entrepreneurs in our audience They are trying for online classes to develop. Most of them are in an area of specialization, or some personal experience which they began from as well as some thoughts about the kind of course they want to create but a majority people I've spoken to haven't really found the idea which they would like to center their efforts on. What are the key points or strategies that you've examined or identified as a way of ways to find that most important idea?>>
It's a common scenario.Dorie Then it's a very common situation. It seems like there's an untruth in the way the best ideas get created and that is, a lot of believe that it's lightning strikes and someday it lands inside your brain and you come up with this incredible idea that's world changing. In reality, I've interviewed over fifty of the world's top executives, and trying to unravel how they developed and became known for their breakthrough concepts, the thing I found was that it's the opposite. Instead of just having a bolt from the blue concept, the reality is that you must be in a position so that you are working in this area so that the idea can come to you iteratively. Since the reality is that you got to just put on your apron and start doing something in the course of doing the research, being meshed within this area, engaging in conversations about how the holes appear and are somehow in a way that they are suddenly visible. Therefore, I would say that the initial step in an attitude change that. That's my opinion. initial thing. Beware of the lightning strike. It originates from the tilling of the soil. But what are a few methods you could use doing this? One that I'll suggest is to conduct your own research. Some may think it's difficult and it's necessary to get PhD or something. Really what I mean by the term "original research" is that in this world there are lots of individuals with opinions. When you conduct studies, that is producing original content that is based on facts rather than opinions it is being a part of the discussion. It could range that includes conducting a survey, doing interviews for blogs to podcasts or anything else with expert experts. This could include doing reviews of products whatever you're adding value in a very regular manner. If you consistently do this it will be a sure way to become quickly regarded as an expert because you have access to more information and more information than the majority of people there.>
"p>Greg: That sounds like a great approach. Yes, in many times when I've attempted the same thing it worked effectively. I've seen those who are going in the other direction, where they're not as successful where they're duplicating things which are out there as well as rewriting many issues. If you wanna build your own identity and stand out then doing something original is definitely important.
"Dorie I would say yes, particularly for those who may not have completely formed their own viewpoint in the moment. Perhaps they're unfamiliar with a subject and may think that this is an obstacle, however, the reality is that from the beginning, there's no need to. If you tell yourself 'you're aware of how I can become an expert in this area by interviewing hundreds of experts on the subject', by the time you're at the hundredth interview, you'll have an opinion. You've talked to enough people, you've seen enough things you've spent enough time in putting your '10,000 hours' into practice that you're likely to have a better-tuned understanding of the subject and its challenges or difficulties just for doing that, and on the way you will have developed into an expert thanks to talking to experts in the field and bringing value to others by shining a light on the ideas.>
Greg: What do you suggest to anyone who's worried about the competition out there? It's like they're looking and they're thinking "well I love entrepreneurial pursuits and for me, it's an enormous love. Perhaps I'll interview people about that but I'm seeing that Andrew has already done a lot of interviews there. Should I stay away ?">
•Dorie Dorie: In reality that there isn't any novel ideas out there. In any case, you could claim that someone already has tried it. The real question is, it's true that they're talking about your topic in a very broad sense but they're not talking about the subject from your point of view. What is unique about you and what do you have to offer to the table?
Greg I think it's an excellent method of thinking about it. I believe that when you start to see many others working in that space is actually an indication that there's a need for the area and then when you're in that in which you become specific, then you could gain more from that need. However, it's been proved by others who are doing it. I actually get a little nervous when I'm thinking about making a decision and then I notice nobody doing it. There's a sound of crickets and you're like, why is that? It's possible that nobody would like to know about it. that kind of topic.
Dorie Dorie could be a very ominous warning.
"Greg: In all of the podcasts I've watched about you, and in a large portion of the stuff that I've read shows that you concentrate on the story-telling aspect of the things. Your book, 'Stand Out is based on a collection of amazing interviews with extraordinary people like Seth Godin and you've got incredible stories and metaphors. It's not just about you saying 'Hi I'm Dorie I have some thoughts about this', you've actually gone out there and spoken with experts. Could you give us specific instances of how these ideas have worked in your own life?>
Dorie: Yeah. This is interesting since my experience as a journalist, up to an extent, provides excellent, however I must also work to get over certain aspects of it because we all have theses prejudices. As a journalist, the norm is to not discuss your own life. It's not your story, keep yourself out of the story. This means that I'll require learning to add the details of my personal story since people are asking for it and are interested in topics similar to that. I've come to realize that this is a great way to share information. It's helpful to share your own experiences but my bias from the start and during my studies has been how do you take stories of other people in order to shine light upon them and their experience is. Since that's what makes the best teacher. I mean you know almost any business book you could actually reduce to 300 pages into one page. Like be nice to people to maintain contact with them, things similar to that. This is ridiculous. We all know it. The problem isn't that business books don't have data, but they usually contain information, but if it's a list of guidelines such as the ten commandments that no one's going to remember nobody's likely to be interested, and the book is likely be considered to be a bit shallow. One thing that can alter people's lives is when they are told a story they are able to relate to. they say yes that finally sinks in that finally hits me, this is for me this is the one I'm going employ. If you've got that you have that, then it's everything.
Greg George: I'm glad to hear that when I consider it all the great works I've been reading, particularly on building businesses when you're reading them You say, "Yes I've heard many of the ideas, that makes perfect sense, but the reason is that it's really resonating with me, because there are some great stories and great illustrations and practical examples in the book. You have a great following. I think many of the people we work with, who are creating courses here come with amazing expertise and a following. Some come with the following and are seeking to create that course, or to share their knowledge and some come with the excellent expertise but with no or only a tiny following. Do you have any advice for those just beginning out or seeking to expand their audience? I'm sure we talked about creating great content, but are there any additional things you'd recommend doing, or channels you would recommend you have?
Dorie I think a number of things that have been a big help for me and I'm trying to double down is the creation of the giveaway for free. If you simply ask for people to subscribe to my newsletter by email, that isn't very exciting. Because there is no value in it, then why should we go involved in that? However, if you're able tell people 'I have this thing that can be extremely valuable and beneficial for you, would you want to try it?" It gives them a reason to sign up, to give you an opportunity to try it, and you are able to test and earn the right to stay in touch with them, if you're offering details that are useful and worth their time. For me personally I'm starting to see the release of my new book , 'Stand Out', I developed this free 42-page workbook that people can download from my site, it walks them through the steps of coming up with their breakthrough idea. In the end, as a result of putting together that which didn't take that long, it was taken from my book. I've used this to expand my list of subscribers from 10,000 to more than 25000. It is available for download on my website DorieClark.com
Then,Greg G.: Thanks, I'll send you an url to it too. I've viewed it and can see that you've put in a lot of work into it and I've seen some free downloads where I've even completed them, and they're sort like a single pager. It's forty-two pages. It's a lot and highly valuable. Is there a balance line between giving away a lot of value for free versus simply having a small amount to hand out? Why do you go so long in the process of giving away worth for nothing?
•Dorie (Dorie): I did not feel apprehensive about it, because the thing that took me 300 hours to then it's not a worthwhile exchange, however I've already completed the work in my book. However, I realized that if the reader is reading the book at a pace that is real-time, they're probably not necessarily responding to the questions that are in the margin. It would be more beneficial to let them download it in a form of a workbook that they can use and print it out? It's a great tool. All I did was grab questions that were at the end of every section. There were many of them, there were over a hundred thirty nine questions. I put it together and had the designers put it in an attractive document. in total it probably was about an hour and a half. If you are able to strike the right balance between being important to your target audience, however in certain ways reuse or reworking of content so that you don't have to make this whole separate thing with the time it takes in it, is an perfect giveaway.
Greg We kind of talked at length about it but your website is DorieClark.com. I really appreciate having your presence here. It seems like I've learned something and really want to see that our audience learned something about the process of building an audience and coming up with great ideas. I believe that a large portion of the information you publish on your site is useful in terms of talking to people about building their own brand, as well as coming up with their great new idea, so thanks for sharing, Dorie!