Matt Steffanina breaks down why creators require an online community
From your basic top eight of Myspace to Facebook Groups that you can only join privately and private Facebook Groups, we've all been part of communities on social media. Over the years, social media platforms have allowed creators to foster thriving communities both privately and in public comments.
But, as it gets more difficult to solve a laundry list of problems that social media has been unable to fix, it is losing its place in the role of a community-building tool and administrator it was once. In the end, entrepreneurs and creators across the globe are starting to see its shortcomings for what they are.
The outage on Facebook in 2021 may be to blame for the initial shift in attitude. A short six-hour period when the platform was down led small businesses and creators alike to lose access to their audience and website traffic, causing widespread revenue loss. A few reported losses that ranged from to $5,000 dollars.
In order to understand the importance in hosting a social community outside of social media, we spoke with the master of online communities himself--Matt Steffanina, world-renowned choreographer and the founder and owner of DNCR Academy.
Since the launch of the YouTube channel in 2009, Matt has grown a relatively small fan base of 30 million users across all platforms. Matt is famous for his dance performances with famous artists like Taylor Swift, Jason Derulo as well as Meghan Trainer. Not to mention his appearances on television shows like So You Think You Can Dance.
Through his YouTube dance tutorials and in-person lessons, Matt formed a tight-knit community of enthusiastic dancers but when the pandemic struck and classes for #IRL were stopped, YouTube simply wasn't cutting it as a means to connect with his audience or make a profit. Then he resorted to online classes and an online community to create a lasting impression on his followers and to create a sustainable business.
Dive into our Q&A of Matt to discover the ways he's built an extremely successful business as well as online community. He also explains why this is the way to create taking control of their own fate.
Note: Responses have been lightly edited for clarity.
Send us an summary of who you are and what you're doing.
Hello, my name's Matt Steffanina, and I'm a choreographer and music producer in L.A. But the last twelve years of my existence have been primarily performing and dancing. My career began in the field of working with artists, but throughout the process I built my YouTube account, sharing videos of my life, classes and tours. In essence, I was following my journey, vlog style. One of the most difficult challenges of being a professional dancer, especially 10 years ago, is that you were always relying on your agent and the dancers to offer opportunities. There was no way to make yourself a better candidate as an artist. So in my early years, I found myself waiting at the end of the line for a chance to audition. Initially, [YouTube] became my way to be productive, and continue working on my skills, and also to market my dance career. I didn't think I could have imagined it would be able to do what it has done. I had a year where I increased my number of users, which seemed like an impressive amount. From it, I ended up getting opportunities working with Ja' Rule and Taylor Swift, and Meghan Trainer.
But the other thing that I was passionate about was teaching. In the beginning, I launched a second [YouTube] channel named the Dance Tutorials Live, where individuals could learn to dance, and I have built up a community of dancers across the globe. What has been the most rewarding part of everything that I've accomplished is listening to the tales of my students' success. They're truly incredible because, at the time, I was just recording tutorials at the local studio on my tripod. I was unaware of making an impact at all and it's been a crazy journey, to say the least.
Do you have a vision of your YouTube channel evolving into what it is? Did you plan to take your channel to where it is today?
It's not possible that anyone could have expected the way it did. When I first posted my film, I was from Virginia before I moved from Virginia to L.A., and I was just looking for methods to be inspired and connect with other dancers. In that moment, fourteen years ago I was among the very first dancers to join the platform. I never could have imagined what happened. Now the channel has like 13 million subscribers and three billion views. The first time my video was viral, I remembered comments from different countries as well, and the idea of someone watching from another country was unfathomable. I couldn't comprehend it however, here we are today, and I'm doing tours across the globe, thanks to social media and being able to get my music out on the web.
Take us on a little bit of a timeline journey. What blew you up first? Was it your YouTube channel? Was it your career?
It is a common belief that getting success in the mainstream or Hollywood industry will lead to an online success, but this isn't the case as you would think. The shows I participated in were shows like the Tonight Show, So You Think You're a Dancer, The Amazing Race, and more--I was getting a lot of opportunities on television that were traditional, however, they didn't translate to long-term results. They were all short-term, but nevertheless, amazing.
What really gave me the endurance and the ability to continue this more than a decade later, is building a community.
The community really came from my dance lessons, which wasn't intentional, but that ended up being the smartest option I could have made; being a great teacher and great leader in the space and pushing a group forward is more difficult to do as a dancer. My work through tutorials, and by teaching students online that led me to be a part of a community that's still going strong to this day.
Are you able to take us through the journey of launching DNCR Academy? What was the moment it became an actual business for you?
I created DNCR Academy right at the time of the outbreak. This was something I'd wanted to create for several years due to a number of reasons. It's a subscription-based platform which allows dancers to learn tutorials. This is a different experience from my YouTube videos. On YouTube the content I upload is] a little inconsistently, and the quality is not necessarily top-quality. This means that we aren't able to attract many guests or teachers. However, a large portion of dancers have been enjoying YouTube tutorials and wanted more training. So I created DNCR Academy for the people who want to be a bit more focused. It allows me to attract top instructors such as Bollywood, shuffling, and instructors in dance fitness; things that I'd never normally do on my own YouTube channel. On the platform of [DNCR Academy] It's totally acceptable and exciting to offer a ton of styles for our students. At the beginning of COVID I was aware that I wouldn't be able to perform and that I would have the opportunity to devote my time the project, and so we set aside two months to developed the platform . That was June 2020. Now it's been three incredible years. I was thinking we were an extremely strong and supportive community on YouTube however, this has taken the strongest of that solid community and put the people in a bubble. Everyone is supporting each other. They not only have this support group that's studying with other people all over the world, but they also have an emotional network of members who push each other. This has become something positive in my life, and for the dancers in DNCR too.
Do you have any more details about the nature of the community as well as what drove you to start DNCR? Did the community exist prior to the DNCR Academy, or did it develop in conjunction with the Academy? Did you anticipate that it would be an important factor in the success of the academy?
I was really afflicted by it with COVID. It seems like a lot of people felt the same. It was difficult to be excited. Difficult to get into the routine when you're at home and don't have access to anything. Dance in particular is a community activity. People do dance on their on their own, however the main thing I like about dance is the feeling of being in a dance studio with my fellow dancers and the energy that comes with that. If all of that goes away, it's tough to find motivation, even for me as choreographer. It was hard for me to find the motivation to continue, and which is why I thought that if I'm going through this, I'm sure someone else who is struggling in the same way and could gain from a community that is tight-knit. It was already there through the YouTube tutorials. However, like I mentioned, there wasn't consistency, and to become a master at something it is my opinion that the number one thing you need [in dancing] is consistency in your dance training. The community enabled us to hold regular challenges every month, which I believe is the most beneficial feature we had at DNCR. It's not just uploading tutorials, but it's a focus on one aspect that we'll all work on in tandem. The group is working together on this routine and will post our videos by a deadline. We found the motivation; the excitement that comes from seeing your friends posting their videos and the cool and even constructive feedback received from them. It's about becoming a part of the community, and actually encouraging each other to grow. This was what was hard to accomplish through YouTube, as it felt that everybody was doing these (the videos) on their own. The community allowed us to all be in this together. It was a game changer, I think for myself as a choreographer as well as for the students being capable of learning consistently.
Have you heard any stories of customers from your local community that stand out to you? What individual in the community have you found memorable?
One of my top clients is one known as Ray. He's originally from Washington D. C. He's a lawyer. He started dancing in his 40's. He'd return home each morning from work wearing his suit of lawyer and move the kitchen table away so that he could practice hip-hop dancing, and eventually, he would dance with his kids. They created a lot of videos, especially over COVID, learning the routines together. He was able to appear to a Disney Channel show, and winning the show. This is a man who, at 40 years old was the only person who had never attended a dance class in his life and found his love in this community, and ended up being one of the biggest inspirations for the members of our community. I believe this kind of accomplishment is crucial to highlight because I also was a complete stranger to the world. It wasn't until 18 years old, but many people aren't aware of that and most of the time, they are seeing me performing with stars and on music videos, so it's harder to grasp my struggles I faced early in my career. Whereas, if you watch those who are currently going through it [the journeytogether] and watch them come out the other side and have an amazing experience-- it's truly inspiring. This really touched everybody in our group. There are many stories similar to this, however Ray was truly a unique one.
Do you use your network and users to try out different concepts or products you have for your business?
One thing that we're constantly working on is the way we can help many more people. How can we help the most individuals? The community of dancers that are looking to excel at dancing is a bit small, so we want to provide the kind of classes on our platform that will take someone to an elite level. We also aim to make it easier for those who just wants to master the basics every now and then, or someone who wants to go to the club and be confident. Plus, we're performing a variety of things with dance fitness. I used to be a personal trainer and I really believe that dance is one of the means to keep in shape physically and mentally. There's even a wedding class because I receive lots of requests for choreography at weddings but , alas, do not have time for it and so this course will take you through everything you need to be aware of. We're working to open it up more to the requests that I've had throughout the years. I've always said if I had the time and energy to accomplish this that it would be wonderful and help a lot of people. The next step is to create more time for these classes.
Could you provide us with an overview of how your strategy for social media looks in the present? How has it changed since you first started on YouTube?
It's changed a lot over the past ten years, just like the various generations of YouTube as well as social media in general. At first, there was no competition which meant I could only uploading video from my classes. It was that simple. It was then that I realized the power of video and the connection with creators. I began vlogging behind-the scenes content and it was successful between 2016 to 2019. After that, we began taking on more challenges, like the ability to learn a routine in just ten minutes. These were really successful.
In the year COVID was announced in 2020, we began to experience success using TikTok and other short-form media. It was a huge change since then. It is my opinion that a lot of viewers of dance was shifted to shorter form, TikTok in particular, due to the fact that dancing was very widespread there. My videos were still posted on YouTube however a significant portion of my strategies were centered on shorter-form content, like 15-second dances, instead of 45- to minute-long dances.
The problem with social media, which people do not understand unless you've been around for a few generations of it is that there's never going to be an answer that works for all time--because regardless of the field you're in, if you find something that works then eventually everybody other people will follow it. And it's happened in the case of dancing. Videos of dance classes began to explode and it [social media] was flooded with dance instructors sharing their dance classes. This led me to think of my next step, and it was also copied. You're always playing this game similar to any other profession of having to reinvent and innovate and think of new concepts. And, the only method to discover those ideas that work is to throw darts at a board. A majority of the ideas will fail and that's why you find the one idea that everyone really enjoys. It's not easy to forecast and therefore we follow the premise that, If I've got an idea, I run with it. We can try the experiment, and if it doesn't work, great. We'll try something else. I think that's the best suggestion I could offer anyone who is trying to create content. Be patient and don't assume because something didn't succeed the first time, it will not work the second or third times. Sometimes, you must tweak an idea, mold it and suddenly it hits.
It's a good way to get into something we did not discuss, social media algorithms. What role have algorithms been a part of your plan? Do they impact your ability to connect with your customers?
Anyone that's been on Instagram will know that it's one of the best known. I can remember an instance that I had the opportunity to post a tour flyer that might get 100,000 or 200,000 likes, and thousands of feedback because it was being shown to my 3.9 million Instagram followers. If I had posted the flyer in the next day, it'd most likely receive only 10% of that [engagementas the algorithm has changed. You must therefore be inventive.
Instead of a flyer, it's a dance video where the dance is happening and city names pop out and users can navigate to the caption for more. The trick is come up with different strategies to work within the algorithms, since at the end of the day, there is no way to influence it. So we watch various things [metricsregarding time retention. YouTube has changed from being a search engine to an ad-hoc click-through platform. Do your title and thumbnail strong enough to get the attention of viewers? The title and thumbnail could be the most impressive video ever made however if your titles and thumbnails aren't engaging viewers, your video is going to flop. If viewers watch the first ten seconds or so of a video and then they move away, YouTube is going to declare that everyone loves your thumbnail, but the video is not performing, so we're not going display it to your fans. This is how algorithms operate in the present. With that said, strategy has become more about notions. I'm pretty certain that we are able to create engaging video content, however, if the content is rapidly learning to perform a certain routine, there are a million options for packaging the title and thumbnail, as well as the length of the video and the design of the video. Each of these factors can impact the success of your content. My channel was getting 30 million viewers on a video over the course of 2 years. This is absurd. Unfortunately, for those who know about monetization due to copyright issues with music, I was not able to monetize most of these videos. But when it came to expanding my channel was concerned was concerned, the results were insane. Things have certainly changed in the past few years, especially because of TikTok as well as Instagram dominating so much of the market share.
Since you bring up the idea of monetization did that in all affect your plans to launch DNCR Academy, or was the sole purpose of moving offline from the internet?
The thing is, whenever people's attention was diverted away from YouTube and then to TikTok and Instagram and Instagram, the numbers throughout YouTube fell, and that was my main method paid for the videos, and that's all by monetization...
In COVID, users wanted an increase in content however there was not as many monetization opportunities in the channels--it was really possible to scale in that way, which was one of the aspects that made DNCR. We now have members who are paying a monthly membership fee so we have the ability to take those cash and put it back to produce new content and courses. It's basically all my goals to achieve that YouTube did not provide enough income to be able to do. This was an effective option financially to expand the content of my tutorials as well as the platform as well as to offer students what they wanted for.
How do you deal burning out that is a part of all of social media's creation of content?
It's not like I'm that old, but in social media, I've been around since the dawn of time. It's quite amazing how many generations have come to an end, and the reason I think people get exhausted is because of some of the factors. I think they set their expectations and schedule way too high and heavy at the start. In particular I recall a time from 2016 until the year 2017 when all my buddies decided to create daily vlogs. For anyone who's attempted vlogging every day is a slog. The amount of work required of editing, filming and coming up with ideas daily is impossible. The channel I've had always kept at one or two uploads a week. Something that I could actually keep. I made sure that I traveled. I ensured that I had breaks. If there wasn't an amazing song out one week or I was not feeling motivated to create choreography, I decided to cancel my class. I made sure that the content creation was something I could do repeatedly, which helped me maintain my longevity.
One of the things I've tried to do to prevent burning out is to establish realistic goals for myself. I think that at the beginning, when you're starting out, it's best to focus on only one of two or three platforms. Keep it simple. For YouTube, upload twice a week. After that, you can take that content and edit it down to short form to post it onto Instagram as well as TikTok. Keep it manageable. It's best to develop slow however, if you still feel that spark of energy and the drive to continue creating content five to 10 years later. then go really hard for a year, then burn yourself out, and then fall off. It's about being consistent. It's a long-term strategy in spite of the fact that it appears like things are happening in a whirlwind.
Have additional suggestions for creators who want to make use of social media to increase traffic to their website or other products, or perhaps setting up their own communities?
The biggest thing is figuring what you would do if you were the position of your viewer, or customer's shoes, what would motivate you to abandon a platform and join the subscription model or course. There are instances we think "I'll just do this or that' and we're thinking about it through our own perspective. So I do a lot of surveys. I ask my fans frequently what direction do you hope to take in the near future or which one would you be the most excited about. There are times when I'm thinking that they'd love to choreograph this awesome dance that's super difficult and intricate when they say "Look, Bro, I'm just looking for some moves that I can show at a party. Then I'm like 'Okay, cool this week, let's discover moves that you could try out at a party.' It's great to be able to step into their shoes.
It's also about providing worth. It is my opinion that if you can provide value first and without asking for anything back or asking for anything in return building confidence, trust, and feel part of a community, when you do give something in exchange for a fee, such as an program or offer, there's already the trust. It's already been a great value and made your customers' life so much better by your offerings that they're more than happy to be an integral part of it. It's true that sometimes we make the mistake of seeking to make a sale earlier than we need to build relationships with customers. And that's one of the great advantages of social media. it allows you to be present with your followers every day in whatever way, be it videos on dance or simply sharing your day-to-day life, which in turn, helps build rapport with them, creating a sense of community and then being like 'Oh I forgot to mention that you've enjoyed your work, here's this thing where we go a step further. This is an simple transition to take instead of getting to know your new followers at the beginning and trying to get them into a group right immediately.
Many creators in this field believe that the only way to make income is through brands and affiliate deals on social media, which you've obviously proven not to be the case. What would you tell new creators in terms of diversifying their income?
Brands and affiliate marketing are one piece of the piece. It is a different piece to the piece. But ideally, you need to make sure you have an element from social media platforms that also provide an income, because, at the time there is no way to predict when the algorithm or the rules are going to change. That's something I've learned throughout my career, as there were times that I earned the majority of my money via YouTube and was getting the bulk of my earnings from live events and touring as well as times where I was making most of my money from TikTok and Instagram as well, and today, it's . At different stages in my professional life, this thing changed several times. And If I'd put all my eggs in one pot, and I was just waiting for brand deals or YouTube to modify their algorithms to allow me to increase my monetization, I would have been in a position where I had to stay.
Create a community, and begin moving your followers away from social media towards a subscription-based service like , where you control the content and members. Now, you don't have to rely on an algorithm that serves the community with your content. All it takes is, boom! into DNCR and users can get access to the content at any time they'd like. It gives the power back to the creators. The world is changing fast and it's harder than ever before to count on branding deals or monetization in the absence of knowing which social media platform will take you next.
Do you want to share with us about the part it been in helping you have control over and control over your future as a creator?
It [] allowed us to create video content that is safe and the rules not change. I think that's the biggest aspect. As I mentioned earlier, there was a time that I could get 30 million views a film on YouTube. Now, with the exception of perhaps MrBeast and a couple of other exceptions, that's almost impossible with just 13 million subscribers. Only a small percentage of those subscribers are served my material. It is really important tobuild a community, move your subscribers to an area where they can connect to them, and also access you consistently. In a simple sense such as an email list and a text list can be great, but really making them part of a larger community that is not on social media is the most powerful means to remain in touch as well as to build a passive income as an artist, particularly if you're using subscriptions. It's a great method to ensure that your friends are in one place that you can talk to themand for them to connect with youas well, but also provide the consistent income stream.
What's one piece of advice you would offer to entrepreneurs who is just starting out within the field?
I'd recommend that you heavily research your field. Before you ever upload a single piece of content on TikTok you should watch a month's worth of content on Tiktok. You can tread your wheels and start making stuff, but I see many hours wasted because people aren't doing their research prior to. If you love fitness and would like to establish an online fitness business Find the top ten people in the industry on social media, watch ten hours of their content, learn the reasons why they work and then develop your content strategy starting there.
It's true that right now there's more data than you've had, especially through YouTube and TikTok The answers are right there. It's not necessary to reinvent the wheel completely and perform an exercise routine that nobody has had before, is it? But, you have to find a way to do it in your personal style and with your unique voice. You can accomplish it by looking up people you love, taking the best things of theirs as well as adding some of your own stuff creating an approach to content. It's important to realize that you have to humble yourself to know that you don't know. That's what I'm doing right currently. At least once a year, I take a few weeks in which I play pretend that I'm not a professional and then I sit back and watch. What is it that the youngsters on TikTok who are 14 who are doing something different which we older people in the field don't understand? You can argue that one dances are silly, or whatnot however there is a rationale that people can identify with it, and I must understand the reason that is so I am able to continue to grow and develop myself creatively, but also for my business. The time you invest into the research is important in the process of developing your content strategy. And after you've got that plan, it's time be able to push the envelope.
Take control of your future with digital products
The economy of the creator is set to witness a surge of online communities by 2023. Social networks are also aware and respond to this by creating communities of their own.
As Matt pointed out, for creators to reach their audience in a powerful method and generate an income that is passive, they must to get their followers off social media.
"Brands as well as affiliate marketing comprise only one part in the whole puzzle. It is also a part of the monetization. But ideally, you want to make use of social platforms that are offering a source of income since, at the end of your day, it's impossible to know when algorithms or rules may be changed. This is something I've come to realize over time because there was a period where I earned the majority of my earnings from YouTube or TikTok, and now, it's ."
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